Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

[system]

@MichaelWelter

Some of these have been addressed in BI4.0, so I’ll address each of these individually.

@anorak

And…(based upon using WRC in 3.1 Sp3) Webi :

doesn’t have Print Preview

Webi has Page mode, which allow Print Preview, and more. You can see how it will look printed, and work on it at the same time. This is much better than Print Preview. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t allow Print options

Webi 4.0 has many print option. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t properly display tables in structure mode when using Autofit

This seems to work fine in 4.0. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t enable easy relative placement of free-standing cells (‘Insert Cell After’ etc.)

This is still missing in 4.0.

@anorak

doesn’t prompt you to keep / remove a filter when deleting a filtered column

It doesn’t prompt. It simply keeps the filter, and you can easily delete it if you don’t want it. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t allow deleting of multiple tabs

This is still true in Webi 4.0. But this is a very minor issue.

@anorak

doesn’t allow deletion of a file when using File>Open

This feature is now available in 4.0. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t allow you to maximise the query panel with a double click

Still true. I wish they would fix this.

@anorak

doesn’t allow export of multiple reports

Still true. Documents must be exported one at a time.

@anorak

doesn’t allow creation of a variable in it’s context (a massively useful function)

Still true. I, too, miss this feature. But the more I work with contexts, the less I miss this feature. It is very useful for beginners.

@anorak

always refreshes LOVs (you can’t stop it no matter which option you choose)

I’ve never seen this behaviour. In 4.0, the LOV doesn’t populate until you refresh it.

@anorak

doesn’t allow the creation of complex filters without creating boolean variables

Still true. I prefer using boolean variables. It’s easier to edit them as variables.

@anorak

has restricted fonts available (no Wingdings)

Still true. Still frustrating.

@anorak

doesn’t allow you to create a simple filter on a measure returned by a query (I’m not talking about Measures that are aggregated within the report)

I’m not sure what this means. I am able to create filters on measures.

@anorak

doesn’t allow you to schedule a multi-DP report in CSV format

You can do this in 4.0. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t have the ‘remove trailing blanks’ option in the query panel

Still missing. But this is a feature that I never used. I prefer to do it in the universe. That way, I can do it once, rather than always doing it at the document level, over and over again. 8)

@anorak

doesn’t allow ‘query on query’ when the object type is different between the two queries (e.g. numeric in one, char in the other…and yes I have needed to do this!)

This is still true. I had to test this, as I’ve never tried this before.

@anorak

doesn’t allow simple calculations such as [Date]+1

Still true. You can use the RelativeDate() function to accomplish the same thing.

@anorak

doesn’t allow you to prevent specific DPs from being refreshed in a scheduled report

Personal DPs can be marked as non-refreshable, but not universe DPs.

@anorak

doesn’t allow you to change the Universe for specific DPs in a multi-DP report (it’s all or nothing)

This is fixed in 4.0. 8)

Webi 4.0 has made some improvements, as you can see, to some of the missing functionality. That’s the good news. The bad news is that the new interface is kludgy and hard to work in. It has has some new bugs, and missing features from Webi 3.1. For example, you can no longer a single query from the query panel. And Data Tracking doesn’t work unless you set Alternate Row Shading to 1 (This is scheduled to be fixed in SP04).

Michael,

Many thanks for taking the time to go through these issues; I really appreciate it.

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anorak (BOB member since 2002-09-13)

[system]

<Excuse my bitterness
As it comes natural SAP acquired business objects with SAP Ecosystem and its inhabitants in mind. For the SAP Customer WEBI and Xcelsius Vs Bex is a big leap forward in report presentation.
The lion’s share of SAP’s customers were aware but were not keen users of Business Objects prior SAP era thus they don’t have a point of reference. Of course they complain about immature products hitting the market and functionality that should be there from day 1- still missing grouping Variables- rather than waiting 4 year to no avail (but thank God we now have ribbon style toolbars).
For the non SAP customers the future is grim and i don’t see it getting any better, meanwhile more versatile vendors are already filling the gap.
Excuse my bitterness/>

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jkanaks (BOB member since 2005-06-08)

[MarkP]

@jkanaks

<Excuse my bitterness
As it comes natural SAP acquired business objects with SAP Ecosystem and its inhabitants in mind. For the SAP Customer WEBI and Xcelsius Vs Bex is a big leap forward in report presentation.
The lion’s share of SAP’s customers were aware but were not keen users of Business Objects prior SAP era thus they don’t have a point of reference. Of course they complain about immature products hitting the market and functionality that should be there from day 1- still missing grouping Variables- rather than waiting 4 year to no avail (but thank God we now have ribbon style toolbars).
For the non SAP customers the future is grim and i don’t see it getting any better, meanwhile more versatile vendors are already filling the gap.
Excuse my bitterness/>

I’d rather have killed off the items on anorak’s list than got the ribbon style toolbars.

[system]

One big one:

VBA

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joepeters (BOB member since 2002-08-29)

[system]

@MichaelWelter

That’s interesting, Mitra. I’ve never used that functionality, so I haven’t missed it. Of course, Webi should have that capability. Crystal Reports does. Deski does. You would think that would be a no-brainer for Webi. You should submit that on the SAP Idea Place.

Michael,

We did submit this on behalf of our clients but to no avail!

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Mitra Moini (BOB member since 2002-09-01)

[system]

Mitra, can you post a link to that idea in this thread? Perhaps we can get more votes for it.

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MichaelWelter (BOB member since 2002-08-08)

[system]

@Mitra Moini

Take into consideration Excel. I know it is a bad example but as a tool it is very simple to use and in all its iterations its core functionality really has not changed. Yes, Microsoft has changed its look and feel of the tool bars and such but it is still the easiest tool out there for the business users to understand. They don’t have to be retrained every time a new version comes out unless they want to learn what is new in it. That is why you will not be able to take that away from users.
…
Just my thoughts,

Okay, now you opened up the can. As far as I am concerned the new look and feel of Microsoft Excel and Word(but not as bad) is 2010 version.
Honestly, they are getting away from the point of a developer use or power user and concentrating on the Simple-Minded folks who only want to type and print. No fuss no muss - no where to go except to a Microsoft Class to find out what they did or how they did it to get what you wanted to do. And used to do easily in 97-2003 version !

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ColumbiaIT (BOB member since 2011-06-15)

[system]

@ColumbiaIT

. . . Honestly, they are getting away from the point of a developer use or power user and concentrating on the Simple-Minded folks who only want to type and print. No fuss no muss . . .

Well, I wouldn’t go that far. I mean, you could say that about cars as well. What with automatic transmissions, cars that park themselves, tell you if there is something behind, slow down if you are getting too close to the car ahead of you, decide what to do on snow and ice, and give you directions to where you want to go! Can’t you then argue that everything today is made for “simple-minded” folks and isn’t that the point? To allow everybody a chance to do what they want to do on their own?

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Mitra Moini (BOB member since 2002-09-01)

[system]

We’ll continue this conversation if and when someone comes up with a ‘Smart Car’

Although Star Trek Enterprise has ‘Auto-Pilot’ it still could not operate without the crew!

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ColumbiaIT (BOB member since 2011-06-15)

[system]

@ColumbiaIT

We’ll continue this conversation if and when someone comes up with a ‘Smart Car’

I already have a smart car:

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MichaelWelter (BOB member since 2002-08-08)

[system]

@ColumbiaIT

… As far as I am concerned the new look and feel of Microsoft Excel and Word(but not as bad) is 2010 version.
Honestly, they are getting away from the point of a developer use or power user … And used to do easily in 97-2003 version !

The ribbon style SUCKS big time, an end user maybe needs 20% of all the functions offered in a MS Office product, but spends 80% of their time finding it hidden somewhere. The same holds true for the Ribbons in Webi 4.0. And do not get me started on the convoluted workflows & menues in the IDT. SAP HANA Studio in contrast works really well so far, even though it uses eclipse (same as IDT), but I am afraid what the future will hold for the GUI of SAP HANA Studio, when more features are added.

@Michael:I drove an Audi TT Roadster/Convertible with around 190 HP as a rental while they fixed my car, that was one sweet car!

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Andreas (BOB member since 2002-06-20)

[system]

@Andreas

The ribbon style SUCKS big time, an end user maybe needs 20% of all the functions offered in a MS Office product, but spends 80% of their time finding it hidden somewhere. The same holds true for the Ribbons in Webi 4.0. And do not get me started on the convoluted workflows & menues in the IDT. SAP HANA Studio in contrast works really well so far, even though it uses eclipse (same as IDT), but I am afraid what the future will hold for the GUI of SAP HANA Studio, when more features are added.

@Michael:I drove an Audi TT Roadster/Convertible with around 190 HP as a rental while they fixed my car, that was one sweet car!

Couldn’t agree more. There are times that I wish for Apple to had the monopoly in UI design. You need Ariadne’s thread in order to find your way in that mess they call ribbon styled interface and its not just a matter of time and familiarization.

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jkanaks (BOB member since 2005-06-08)

[system]

There seems to be a belief in SAP development that if Microsoft does it, it must be right. But Microsoft made a huge mistake with the ribbons, and, unfortunately, SAP is following along blindly. It’s very unfortunate. And what’s worse, most users don’t have a voice to complain to SAP.

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MichaelWelter (BOB member since 2002-08-08)

[system]

Just curious if anyone has a good alternative reporting tool. We use mostly Oracle DBs. I have recreated reports in SQL reporting, but it is not there yet as a full replacement. Doable with workarounds, especially for simple reports, but a pain. I am also trying BOBI4 at the same time.

I know all the arguments for Univ reports, and we could not live with them exclusively for reasons given by others. Without DeskI for design, BO is really nothing special. Converting from a deski report every time we make a change is not a sustainable strategy.

We went through a lot of pain getting BOXIR2 to work from our version 5.2 because of key issues with SAP (1 year of pain trying to get them to properly generate a working key), so we do not take this switch lightly. The silly granularity of the security alone was a real experience.

We are going to look at the new Oracle tool (OBI) which I think came from Hyperian, but if they only offer web based design for publishing reports I think we may have to go to SQL reporting. Not our first choice, but sadly the future does not look good for BO and now is the time for us to decide.

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samtin (BOB member since 2012-04-09)

[system]

@samtin

We are going to look at the new Oracle tool (OBI) which I think came from Hyperian, but if they only offer web based design for publishing reports I think we may have to go to SQL reporting. Not our first choice, but sadly the future does not look good for BO and now is the time for us to decide.

I agree that when SAP dropped DESKI they lost a major component to being the all-around BI OLAP product of choice.

That said, I don’t think Oracle’s OBIEE is the right path; especially with its estimated 10 million dollar pricetag for full range of use.

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ColumbiaIT (BOB member since 2011-06-15)

[system]

Ouch. We will check the function vs price. We have other Oracle, so they may give us a deal though.
Like I said, now is the time for us to make a decision, and the slower web based reporting will not cut it for everything we do. Typical form over function.

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samtin (BOB member since 2012-04-09)

[system]

Good Luck. I love Oracle but not much of a fan of OBIEE

FYI, I too have been asked to look around; that said a company and product called “arcplan” looks interesting.

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toscajo (BOB member since 2002-09-04)

[system]

First off:
We know Sapphire has turned out to be more of a ‘Dog & Pony’ show rather than the great BOBJ event it used to be.

That said, STOP trying to push Crystal as a solution. Having a tool which was given out FREE for years hasn’t changed much and it is not at all user friendly and FAR FAR AWAY from being an OLAP solution.
It get tiring to talk with my superiors and letting them know over and over that Crystal is not a good application. This occurs everytime one of them attends an SAPBOBJ event.

You want to work on something; work on your knowledge of the industry. 1980s mentality is done, welcome to the 21st century.

Sorry All, but I needed to vent my frustrations with what SAP is NOT doing correctly.

Thanks for everyone here for all your continued support and assistance with all sorts of workarounds. You are the best!

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ColumbiaIT (BOB member since 2011-06-15)

[system]

First post , quality forum… been using it for many years, as a lurker but this post did set me to share my frustrations with the Deski legion.
About 3 years ago I was present at bobj user community event in London, where a Webi Program Manager from SAP declared that the major gaps in fuctionality would be filled before DESKI EOL. Well not much has changed since. As a BOBJ user over 12 years and having worked with both tools, DESKI is certainly not replaced. There are still certain elementary functionality features that were available in BO Reporter V4.x and still not included in Webi XI 4.0 … i.e.

• use of VB macro and use of VB as data provider (which means it can integrate with other software components (end to end solution)
  -formula editor in webi is still not intuitive as in Deski ; where in Deski the cursor shows you what parenthesis is expected next
• where in the inclusion of an If then Else statement you can select values of a LOV and don’t have to type it manually (error prone in Webi)
• where you can define a formula in its context (very useful for advanced Flag concept reporting)
• slice and dice
• Webi doesnt handle more advanced manipulations i.e.folding a break, hiding or deleting redundant data but using instead formula statements in the footers
  …

Reading between the lines the Deski EOL was because of cutting dev costs (with the SAP integration) and / or not providing enough revenue via maintenance renewals / licencing…
I think most on here could live with it as long as Webi or Rich Client replaced it like for like…

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wlfmfc (BOB member since 2012-05-28)

[system]

About ready to join this greatly frustrated list of BI developers.

But now its greatly impacted with the service or LACK-OF.

Not Three Strikes yet but,
Escalated a call to High on an issue I was having.
…response was: Attached please find our protocol of setting severity issues…
Are they Kidding… STRIKE 1

Escalated a ticket to High Priority on a go-live problem.
…response was: Attached is a document that will help you. When I said I already have it the reply was ‘Oh okay, what’s the problem?’
I’m talking and then … Sorry sir, but I am getting IM’d quite Frequently.
ARE…YOU…KIDDING …BIG BIG STRIKE 2.9999999

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ColumbiaIT (BOB member since 2011-06-15)